Goals in SSBM -- An Intro to the Player vs Player Elements of the Game (pt. 2 of 2)

Part 1 can be found here.

Small article I wrote on a goal-oriented approach to decision-making in SSBM. This section deals with some of the benefits to goal-oriented play that weren't explicitly addressed in part 1 and also goes into a bit more detail when we observe the interactions that occur within a combat sequence. Part 2 of 2.

So to pick up where we left off with Frog last time, we watched a short clip of M2K vs Dr. PP from APEX 2013 where PP predominantly used Falco's laser, safe aerial approaches, empty jumps, and dash dance --> grab / laser to control & condition M2K's options near the edge until M2K eventually gave up on winning from that position and rolled for the middle, resulting in PP gaining a huge combo.

Once we'd discussed that clip sufficiently, I wanted to go over one more clip in order to complete the lesson on goals. This deals with some of the benefits of goal-oriented play that weren't addressed in the first half, and the match analysis focuses a bit more on minute combat interactions rather than playing against a base gameplan (i.e. how to play against Marth's grab as Falco). So there's a bit more of a focus on situational factors (percent, which way a character is facing, etc).

I only hope you find this as helpful as Frog did. Enjoy!!

---- Cue Conversation ----

Frog:

i put on an old game of me vs keasta

where i just kind of aimlessly throw out moves

and thinking about it, i should get punished for stuff like that

KK: 

TBH the issue isn't always you get "punished" for it in the traditional sense of the word

Rather, the greater risk is that you don't get the advantage you could have gotten by doing something that addressed your opponent

Frog: 

im definitely limiting myself if im spending time in lag

Frog:

in times where im throwing out senseless aerials

i could be like

repositioning myself

or just straight up using the gun

KK: 

Indeed

Frog:

not like a dmg punish but kind of punishing myself

by limiting what i can do

raaaa this game is so complicated

KK: 

Not effectively using your opportunities so you lose potential advantage is a form of self-inflicted punishment, yes.

This is probably a big shift from how you're used to playing.

Frog:

you could say that again xD

KK:  

I warn you. Once you begin down this path there's no real turning back.

Frog:

i HAVE to try, im not afraid of failing, just afraid that one day im gonna look back at this whole smash thing and say to myself, maybe i could taken it further

KK: 

On the bright side, something nice I can say about this kind of play...

When I realized you *could* play this way...

Is that I realized this is definitely the funnest way to play SSBM. 

Well, at least for me it is haha.

This is one of the first big steps on your journey to being good at this game.

Welcome :)

Frog:

haha thank you

tomorrow im going to try and find that spark you were talking about

i feel like i could REALLY use that right now. Also i gotta stop with all the caffeine

i feel like thats having a huge influance on how i play as well...

hopefully tomorrow when im totally sober ill be able to just sit down play and apply some of this

but yeah i should really get some sleep, got a long subway ride tomorrow morning  

see ya there?

KK:  

One more small exercise

You mentioned Peach

Frog: 

yessir

KK: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQSMTKhdsDY#t=28m23s

Watch for about 16 seconds

KK:

So, Peach

We're gonna get into a bit more detail with her because Peach is a bit more complicated than Marth

And because it helps build the context of what's happening in the clip

To start, PP is at 102%

What do you think Peach's goals are right now

In terms of what attacks she wants to hit

Frog:

hmm

grab forward throw is one

KK: 

Armada would u-throw combo but that's just splitting hairs

Grab, yes

That's 1

Frog:

nair bair or fair would do the trick, fair i think is the best at this point tho cause its so fast

i mean

nair*

KK: 

You're smart

And as always...

Frog:

downsmash?

KK: 

We must factor in d-smash

Yes

Absolutely

KK:  

So PP lands next to Armada

Armada and PP have their backs to each other

Look what Armada does

Oh, look, it’s that nair we figured he'd be fishing for

Frog:

peepee holds this shield, in anticipation of the nair

KK:  

Indeedy

Frog: 

in that situation, 10/10 times i would go for the backair

peepee has no fear

KK:  

Because blocking there protects him from all of the scary Peach aerials and on occasion the d-smash Armada can do to kill him

KK:  

He is over 100% near the edge as Falco

Armada is mercifully shielding with his back to him

So he doesn't have to worry about grab

Armada's choice to protect himself from PP immediately attacking him has eliminated grab

And the shield also reduces the likelihood of d-smash so

All that's left are aerials

PP's shield there effectively addresses all of Peach's options

Neat, huh?

And because Armada swings first, PP gets to lock him down with some lasers

Because floating above Falco's laser height is one of Peach's goals in the matchup for position

Frog:

hes protected himself against all of peach's goals by being patient in shield, knowing armada is probably hungry

KK: 

Indeed

So he keeps Armada from being able to jump OOS into float by aiming the laser high to catch his jump OOS

And he gets a nair for his troubles

Frog: 

lol

KK: 

Armada then blocks so PP pokes his shield

And gets out of the way ASAP

In doing that motion he is covering his roll in

Frog:

because of that other goal peach has

the grab

KK: 

Indeed

He's baiting for a grab

Covering a roll

And when Armada does neither, he jumps in with an aerial and lands behind Armada and blocks again

Armada bairs OOS into PP's shield

Frog: 

and after armada bairs his shield he punishes

KK:  

Right. PP then acquires a free bair

PP then lasers Armada out of his high float to force him down

Fails to hit a dash dance grab on Armada's landing

Then blocks again

Armada swings with a SH back nair

PP punishes this with WD back > dash JC grab

It's insane how much mileage he gets out of that stock by simply knowing that Armada wants to put him away and playing to that

Frog: 

that grab puts peach in an awkward spot, pp missed those high lasers after tho

KK: 

Indeed

Falco vs Peach is a very interesting matchup because it's such a control-heavy game

Peach is resistant to a lot of Falco's naturally strong suppression tools

In that matchup you maintain advantage by playing around your opponent's goal in a situation

Peach's ability to nair to break certain combos gives her a way out of combos, yes

Her ability to float over lasers give her a way to work around his ground control

These little extra tools she has that she can actively go for

You have the opportunity to play against

And you will be rewarded for countering those successfully

Frog: 

so even tho i cant rack up a 200% combo

if i just start to look for these oppertunities

i can rack up my dmg elsewhere

KK: 

You can just abuse her by controlling her combo break options

Frog: 

by just trying to understand what the peach's goals are

based on whats happened

KK: 

It's a combination of what her best moves are in a situation

Which you'll know if you understand the matchup

Or at least know the basics of the matchup

It's also partially habits, which you've noted too

Because the pilot matters

KK:

Question

Why isn't Armada going for dash attacks?

Frog:

uhm

because it won't combo or kill?

KK:

You're learning :)

I think that is enough for tonight

When you're more comfortable with this stuff tell me

Then I'll give you the next lesson

Night Trevor

Goals in SSBM -- An Intro to the Player vs Player Elements of the Game (pt. 1 of 2)

Part 2 can be found here.

This article's goal is to teach you how to make better plays in SSBM by using a conversation & match analysis to illustrate a goal-based approach to strategy in SSBM. It's mostly aimed at beginners / intermediate players who have achieved a solid level of character control but still feel they're struggling with decision-making in matches. Part 1 of 2.

The story behind this article is simple enough -- I was talking to one of my friends a while ago (a Falco player from my region whose tag is, 'Frog') about improvement in SSBM. He said that he was kind of stumped about how to actually get better at the game.

Some background about the above: Frog is a very technically-sound Falco, at least as far as I can tell. He lands his shine-grabs, JC shines, sticks his l-cancels on landing, has solid movement around the stage, and overall has very good character control. Despite all these positives, though, he managed to get eliminated by a pair of Peaches at the Arcadian tournament we had in Toronto (for those who are unfamiliar with SSBM slang, an "Arcadian" is an amateurs-only tournament where the ranked players in that region are barred from entry) and finished much lower than many people expected of him (a lot of people projected him for top 3).

Since Frog is a friend of mine, I offered to talk to him about how he could improve his decision-making in matches. And eventually, over FBchat, we started talking about how to improve in SSBM. This is how our conversation went. 

Note: The conversation has been trimmed in parts and edited to flow together a bit better, but I decided to leave our typing styles alone (i.e. not fix his capitalization on FBchat) to make it easier to distinguish between who's talking.

---- Cue Conversation ----

Frog:

my mental game is so weak

things happen in front of me and i just have a hard time slowing down and just trying to spot things that could help me

i think it has a lot to do with me trying to be overly technical when i actually cant execute what i want to do

its like i know i need to slow down but my hands just take over when the panic sets in and i go into frog vs lvl 4 cpu mode

almost like an autopilot, if that makes any sense

KK: 

It is time you begin learning the PVP element of this game

Frog:

i totally agree

i just dont even know where to start

KK:

I generally like to begin at the beginning. Let's start there.

Frog:

xD

so what exactly is the beginning xD

KK: 

1) Your opponent has goals

2) You have goals

Frog:

is that character dependent or player dependent O.O

KK:
It's a combination, actually. It also sometimes can be influenced by the stage.

Frog:

the plot thickens o.o

KK:

But if I explained the nuances of all that, this gets very complicated. And I don't want to confuse you. So let's simplify this: Marth vs Falco.

Frog:

along with peach its my worst mu

KK:

Marth's goal, offensively, is very obviously to grab you. Sound about right?

Frog:

yup. cause the grab will lead into big damage. or an off stage situation.

getting grabbed is one of those panic things for me where ill start to go into auto pilot

KK: 

Your issues with nerves is likely in part derived from the lack of balance in your play; you are a much stronger player on offense.

Frog:

thats where im most comfortable

KK: 

By not really understanding the PVP aspects of the game, it makes it difficult for you to understand situations where you're out of control. Which generally leads to poor defense and, as you so eloquently put it, "panic mode". This is likely why you find Peach hard. Because even when you have her 'under your thumb' she's got more ways to slip past the offending digit and find safety or counterattack.

Frog:

deox was nairing out of a ton of things that joey didn’t. that threw me off a lot. put me into that panic mindset, i felt like i had to change everything. which kinda put me into that panic.

its like i would combo him and then all of a sudden the situation turns against me

KK: 

Okay so first and foremost this game is a game about options

The way you win this game is by eliminating the opponent's options until they can't do anything except accept the bad situation & its subsequent penalty.

Perhaps the most obvious example of this is the chain grab. It's a bit of an extreme but you can see what I'm getting at: you have been grabbed, which means you have nothing you can do about the next however many throws it goes and then I can finish the combo or extend it depending on the character-match combination.

But the chain grab is the byproduct of being grabbed, meaning there was a step that occurred before chain grabbing occurred

KK:

Most fighting games can be split into 2 phases:

(1) The first hit game (or push & pull)

(2) The punishment game (combos, edgeguarding, knockdowns, etc)

Obviously it is much easier to manipulate or deny someone options during the punishment phase.

I've played you -- for the most part I assume you know how to combo and can intuitively plan around some combo escapes. So we're gonna talk about the more voluminous topic. First hits.

Remember how we began with Marth has goals?

Marth's goal is to grab Falco.

Falco's goal is generally to shine, grab, or aerial Marth.

Frog:

yup

KK:

So it's probably safe to assume that anything Falco does that helps him create opportunities for those three options while eliminating ways Marth can grab him…those are probably good plays, yes?

Frog:

haha yup id say so

KK:

Ok

Frog:

its actually kind of crazy

how simple you are breaking this down

not nearly as itimidating as i thought

KK: 

We're starting at the basics. My goal is to teach in a manner where you actually learn things.

KK:

Alright so now we know our opponent's goal and we know our goals. The next step is identifying what tools Marth has for making his goal happen and what tools Falco has for making his goals happen.

So Marth has his speed on the ground with his fast rushing movements (especially his dash), he has the ability to combo off aerials into grab, and he can create a knockdown with dash attack / f-smash / counter and tech chase the grab.

He also has the range of his grab, which can often be a threat all by itself.

Does all this still make sense?

Frog:

yup yup

KK:

Ok then. You're the Falco player.

Tell me what Falco has to procure a shine, grab, or aerial on his opponent.

What tools does he have to help him land those hits?

Frog:

lasers for sure

stuff his movement

uhm

dair?

i really dont know other than laser tbh

KK:

Let's educate you then

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0byg-S0D2U#t=7m40s

Watch until 7:56 m

Note: A gif of the sequence above has been generously provided by Alexander DuPrey -- http://fat.gfycat.com/EarlySimpleGyrfalcon.webm

Frog:

yessir!

watching the game now

KK:

Now I'm not gonna lie to you; there is a lot of stuff happening in that 16 seconds. Like, a hell of a lot.

That said, you should be able to notice a few things going on.

What do you notice about how PP is moving?

Frog:

i see him getting into this zone

where marth is out of range

for a fair

and he just waits to m2k

to put a move out

and then goes in with a nair

hes got marth

constrained to the right side

KK:

Indeed

Frog:

sorry it was a grab

not a nair

watched it again

KK: 

He does both, but yeah

Mew2King is in a lot of trouble in that position

Because PP has set up a position where M2K basically cannot really effectively challenge PP for better position without making an insane read on PP's timing

This is because PP is using his lasers to discourage M2K from dashing in with grab on him, among other things.

Remember how both characters have goals?

Frog:

so Peepee is denying M2K's goals by keeping him constrained with lasers and good spacing

KK: 

Yes.

PP is therefore controlling M2K's options.

Frog:

he isnt running in there for dmg

its like he knows the dmg will just come

if he keeps this control

KK:

Yes

And he's going in with safe low aerials / dash dance grabs / empty SH feints / dash dance feints --> laser to reinforce his control over M2K's dash to keep Marth from just trying to muscle his way through with a disrespect strat. 

This is because if M2K runs in with grab at the same time PP rushes him with an aerial, then M2K is liable to take a huge Falco combo near the edge and die.

Similarly, he's policing M2K's defense because if M2K defensively grabs in anticipation of PP coming in and whiffs, then PP can attack him from a lot of the actions he's moving with and either get a huge Falco combo or even kill him outright if the percent is right (or if M2K either flubs DI or has his DI read).

And all of that also applies to yolo counter… and a whole lot of options actually.

Frog:

he makes it look so easy lol, watched the rest of the game and hes just so patient

KK: 

He's controlled and patient, yes. But he is putting the foe under crazy amounts of pressure still.

So what can Falco do to create his openings?

He's got a lot of tools, actually.

Frog:

dash dance and laser for sure

KK: 

He's got his SH and numerous forms of it -- empty SH, empty SH to WL forward/back, SH aerials, lasers, u-tilt, dash dance, etc.

Frog:

so just by empty short hopping

hes threatening with an aerial

and waiting to see what m2k does?

KK: 

Yup

Frog:

with the wavelands, is it possible to sneak in with a grab?

waveland forward->grab?

or is that too risky?

nvm dont answer that, its like, only if he chooses to shield

right?

KK:

Right. And I'm not sure why you'd do that over empty land (in front of their shield) --> shine --> grab

Frog:

oooo i like that

so if he doesnt shield he gets shined

and if he does he gets grabbed

that whole covering options thingy

KK: 

If he tries to shield grab your empty jump's landing he's liable to be shined (because empty land --> shine hits on frame 5 whereas a shield grab hits frame 7)

If he holds shield, you grab him

Waveland is primarily a way to reposition at the cost of some inaction

So let's talk about your earlier suggestion of WL forward into grab; there's an issue there.

WL puts you into a state of inaction for about 10 frames, during which time you slide directly into the opponent's range.

If Marth's goal is to grab you, why is this a bad idea?

Frog:

because im helping him accomplish his goal

by just giving him the grab

KK:

Right.

You're putting yourself in front of Marth

In waveland lag, with no protection.

This might feel similar to empty landing into shine

I mean, empty jump doesn't have an aerial

But here's the difference:

Your empty jump has the threat of an aerial attached to it because you could feasibly do an aerial somewhere in your SH and then grabbing becomes bad

Frog:

so as im doing my empty jump, i should just be starring at marth, and if he goes in, put out a late aerial

KK: 

Not only that, but most shield grabs are done AFTER an opponent lands from an aerial and NOT before (for the reasons stated above)

Yeah that's one way to do it

You could also simply watch for whether it looks like Marth is gonna move in or not

What PP does to coax M2K away from the edge is really smart

With his sparing use of SH aerial approaches, how he moves in with grabs, his lasers into dash dance, and his empty jump in > WL back

The second M2K tries to roll to the middle, PP is all over him

Why do you think M2K rolled?

Frog:

out of panic? or desperation?

KK: 

That's part of it, sure. But let's look at the tactical aspect of it: goals.

Everything in relation to goals.

Frog:

i see peepee dash dance, right before the grab happens

i mean roll, not grab

KK:

By being at the edge, M2K is clearly incapable of protecting himself from PPMD's control tools

PPMD is basically getting free openings and damage every second and M2K's options are being constantly shut down

It is clear M2K cannot protect himself in this position

So what is he trying to do with that roll?

Frog:

get himself out of the situation where his options are shut down

and eat a punish?

KK: 

I don't think M2K intended to get hit

I do think he wanted to change his position onstage though

Frog:

after being stuck there for so long i can see why he wanted out

KK: 

Indeed

There's a lot of things going on in those 16 seconds

Frog:

ive watched that clip 15 or 20 times now

catching something new everytime